tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post2729171319917068334..comments2024-03-27T23:42:36.619-05:00Comments on Mock Ramblings: Christian parents of atheist or agnostic childrenMichael Mockhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-36098892343333931912014-10-19T20:40:17.778-05:002014-10-19T20:40:17.778-05:00I didn't know Methodists did confirmation, eit...I didn't know Methodists did confirmation, either. I know that the Disciples of Christ do it the other way around, with a sort of "promise" ceremony for babies and baptism usually around 13-14, or whenever the person is ready to decide for themselves; and I really don't know about anyone else. <br /><br />In that case, I am a little surprised by the strength of your family's reaction; I generally think of Methodists as being a bit calmer than that. If you don't mind my asking, how are the confirmation classes going? Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-79314360375110050942014-10-19T14:59:27.467-05:002014-10-19T14:59:27.467-05:00Thanks for the advice, I tend to say that I am an ...Thanks for the advice, I tend to say that I am an agnostic-atheist, as in I don't claim to know that there isn't a god, but with no proof of it, I can't just assume it exists. As for the confirmation, my family is Methodist, which surprised me too (I didn't actually know that Methodists did confirmation) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872098384553792919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-37198926295767545942014-10-18T22:39:02.919-05:002014-10-18T22:39:02.919-05:00Good evening, I posted a reply here, but don't...Good evening, I posted a reply here, but don't see it posted. Perhaps it is in the hands of the moderator? Will eventually repeat it tomorrow. Have a nice Sunday, if possible without confirmation class!<br />Federicokoppieophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02851986284614796389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-40164596176771049272014-10-18T22:35:18.444-05:002014-10-18T22:35:18.444-05:00Agree with your suggestion Michael, to speak of ag...Agree with your suggestion Michael, to speak of agnosticism instead of atheism. I tend to feel less sympathy for Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris lately. They are right in stressing the negative side of religions/churches but they do not accept the positive aspects of religions enough.<br />What do you think of the term Unbeliever, would that be another alternative? <br />Have a nice Sunday,<br />Federico koppieophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02851986284614796389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-19895775317495012052014-10-18T21:55:06.410-05:002014-10-18T21:55:06.410-05:00Sounds rough. I mean, the church part could be any...Sounds rough. I mean, the church part could be anything from "just kind of boring and useless" all the way to "really, hugely unpleasant", depending on the circumstances, but the family scapegoat bit is pretty harsh. If you want some people to talk to (and you have a facebook account), you're welcome to join the "atheist or agnostic children of Christian parents" group, here: http://www.facebook.com/groups/406543069389528/<br /><br />For whatever it's worth, I continued attending church with my own parents well after I stopped believing, because it didn't especially bother me and it helped maintain the family tranquility index. Still - obviously - just because that was the right answer for me, doesn't mean it was the right answer for anyone else. <br /><br />I also wonder if it might not help to describe yourself as an agnostic, at least to your parents. A lot of people still assume that "atheist" also means anti-Christian and/or anti-religion, while "agnostic" comes across as a lot less threatening - less "this is a bunch of crap" and more "I'm just not sure about this", if you see what I mean. That might seem a bit dishonest, but most of the atheists I know are at least somewhat agnostic as well, and most of the agnostics I know take an atheistic approach to their day-to-day lives; the terms are a lot more interchangeable than some people think. <br /><br />I'm still shaking my head about the confirmation class, though. I mean, are they doing that just to give you more "in-depth knowledge" of your church's particular dogma? Or are they actually expecting you to go through Confirmation at the end of the class? (I'm assuming your family is either Catholic or Episcopalian, and probably Catholic.) If it's the first one, it sort of makes sense - if they can't answer your questions, they'll put you with someone who can (or at least should be able to). If it's the second one, well... I'd do some seriously thinking about where this is likely to end, and what would be the optimal outcome. <br /><br />...As with everything I offer as advice, remember that this is just my advice (and, in this case, more "just some thoughts" than, y'know, actual advice). So feel free to ignore, alter, consider, or poke fun at it. You know your situation better than I ever will.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-46681429574140162542014-10-18T19:54:54.825-05:002014-10-18T19:54:54.825-05:00Great article, I'm 13 and came out as a libera...Great article, I'm 13 and came out as a liberal-atheist a few months ago to my conservative-christian family, and in that time my parents haven't let me miss a day of church, and signed me up for a six-month confirmation class at our church. Not to mention, since I'm "close-minded and need to learn more about God" I have become the family scapegoat.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872098384553792919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-14198065437514317872014-02-23T21:06:07.340-06:002014-02-23T21:06:07.340-06:00First off: I'd really recommend that you copy ...First off: I'd really recommend that you copy this over to the "atheist or agnostic children of Christian Parents" group, here: <br />http://www.facebook.com/groups/406543069389528/ <br />We have a fairly large group there, and you'll get a lot more feedback that way. It's a private group, so nobody outside the group will see what you write there; BUT, people can see the membership list, so if it's going to cause friction you might want to make a Facebook account just for that group. <br /><br />The letter might help, assuming your mom is willing to read it and really try to work through it... Which she may not be. She may not be ready to cope with the idea of you not being a Christian. In fact, her huge blowup may be a primal scream of panic at the realization that maybe this really isn't something will go away if she ignores it. (People dealing with what they perceive as big changes frequently start by completely freaking out and overreacting; it's not unique to situations involving religion.) So it might be better just to drop the topic completely. You've been open and honest about where you stand; give them a little time to adjust, and let them approach you about the topic when they're ready.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-5914923161189426862014-02-23T19:10:34.256-06:002014-02-23T19:10:34.256-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.DalekQueenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787822111124364519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-4745121150008425012014-01-24T18:35:29.772-06:002014-01-24T18:35:29.772-06:00...Which is why we set up support groups for both.......Which is why we set up support groups for both.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-51643084895680484792014-01-23T22:43:30.025-06:002014-01-23T22:43:30.025-06:00If anyone needs a support group it's atheist k...If anyone needs a support group it's atheist kids with religious parents. Especially those who suffer the repercussions of persecution and religious intolerance which can range from emotional abuse, threats, blackmail and physical abuse and worse of all shunning and social ostracization. In some Islamic countries the penalty is death.<br />Lets not kid ourselves who the real victims are most of the time.Joe Bigliogohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15045783072385552990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-84786990253143520902013-12-07T00:33:45.561-06:002013-12-07T00:33:45.561-06:00I've run into that attitude before ("It d...I've run into that attitude before ("It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you believe in something!"), and I still find it puzzling. For one thing, it seems to me that in some ways, <em>what you believe</em> is actually more important than how you got there - especially when it comes to how you treat other people. For another, if you've explored those beliefs and they don't resonate with you, then trying to pursue them seems more like to lead you to "a bad place" (emotionally, spiritually, or what have you) than just letting it go. It sounds like your mother is also assuming that morality requires some sort of religion. I don't think that's true, but enough religions make it their business to try to teach morality that it's an understandable confusion.<br /><br />One of the things you might point out is that different personality types interact with religious belief and religious experiences very differently. Some people find it easier to "make contact" with the spiritual side of things when they're alone; others find it easiest when they're in communion with a group of believers. It seems very possible that some people basically don't find it at all, or experience that side of themselves by exploring the workings of the physical world in and of itself. <br /><br />The other thing that might help is if you can somehow bring your mother to look at your situation a bit differently. If she sees you as "scientifically minded", as inquiring and analytical, then maybe she needs to realize that your search for knowledge simply is following a different path than hers. If she can see that as a different approach, rather than you being "spiritually empty", it might be easier for her to accept. <br /><br />The only other thing I can think to try to say is something that I find myself saying a lot: all of us, believers and unbelievers alike, are doing the best we can with the information and experiences that we have. Our beliefs are based on the conclusions we reach when thinking about these things, and we can't believe in things that don't make sense to us. Presumably, any deity worth its salt would recognize and understand that. <br /><br />I hope that helps, though honestly it probably says more about me and where I'm coming from than you and what you need to do. Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-91048980260408935382013-12-06T20:22:36.256-06:002013-12-06T20:22:36.256-06:00I really wish my mother could read English, as thi...I really wish my mother could read English, as this post would help with our current standstill. My mother converted to Buddhism several years ago, and raised me without any mention of religion at all. I grew up with friends of many different religions: Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish. I am agnostic, and very much respect that other people have their own beliefs, but avoid going to religious gatherings so as to avoid offending anyone unintentionally. I actually get upset when someone insults another's beliefs because that is a sign of ignorance and is a sure fire way of creating unnecessary conflict to which actual compromise (and not simply agreeing to disagree) is, to my knowledge, extremely rare if not impossible. <br /><br />Anyway, my mother has been trying to make me believe in some religion. She doesn't care which, because she believes that any religion is better than not having one at all. She thinks that I should believe in SOMETHING so that my soul, spirit what have you, doesn't end up in a bad place. She also thinks that the only way I'll find a good kind life partner who won't take advantage of me and treat me well is if I find that person through a place of faith.<br /><br />I've told her time and time again that I have gone to church with religious friends. I've been to Methodist churches, Presbyterian churches, Catholic Churches, synagogues, mosques, AND Buddhist temples. I have prayed and meditated, but I know after many visits that I have not, and probably will not, find that strength of belief that my mother wants me to find. And I don't want to disrespect anyone by being there without truly believing. But she is still trying to "save" me. She knows that I am a good person, but doesn't believe that I can find a good person to spend my life with who DOESNT have a religion. She doesn't believe that I can find happiness and peace within myself without the guidance of some religion or other. <br /><br />She thinks it is because I am too scientifically minded to believe, but I know plenty of people, many of them close friends, who believe very deeply in God while going on to become doctors and scientific researchers. I can feel myself putting distance between us whenever she starts talking about my lack of faith, which I hate because I have always been close with her. I don't want religion to be the thing that drives us apart, but I can't seem to convince her that I am happy as I am and that she should accept me as I am with or without religion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06060518523280220992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-1083206309520561842013-05-14T09:27:29.589-05:002013-05-14T09:27:29.589-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Candyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18343322883733472692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-56739515743707688962013-05-14T08:56:00.004-05:002013-05-14T08:56:00.004-05:00My immediate reaction is that if they take every o...My immediate reaction is that if they take every opportunity to mock and personally attack you and your husband, then they shouldn't be living in your home. That seems kind of obvious, though, so I imagine there are very good reasons why they can't live somewhere else.<br /><br />When you say they "won't answer questions" about faith, am I correct in thinking that you mean that your daughter (and her husband) won't answer their children's questions about religion? I'm not sure how to answer that. On the one hand, the adult child has a right to make decisions about how her children are raised. On the other hand, she's raising them in your house, and you - your beliefs and perspectives - deserve consideration, too. <br /><br />Bear in mind that I'm working from very little information here, and that I'm not any sort of trained counselor or therapist. My advice is just that: advice. But it occurs to me that if your adult children have to live in your house, then everyone in the household might benefit from meeting with an experienced, professional family therapist - someone who can help sort out all the different perspectives, and help you find ways to live together without so much friction.<br /><br />And, of course, if you want to talk to some other parents in similar situations, the support group on Facebook is up to twenty-five people now. It's not the most active thing in the world, but it's a good group of people - and if nothing else, it can be very reassuring to know that it's not just you.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-27337017274687812792013-05-14T07:52:44.480-05:002013-05-14T07:52:44.480-05:00How do you deal with adult child that is living in...How do you deal with adult child that is living in our home with her children that will not answer questions regarding God, sacred holidays, sacraments. <br />They went to Catholic schools, and take every opportunity to mock and personally attack my husband and I.<br />They are grown adults that can't stand on their own, the children are victims to the parents ignorance. Religion exists in all forms in society.Candyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18343322883733472692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-63267806908391806302013-04-25T08:36:56.035-05:002013-04-25T08:36:56.035-05:00I can't fault you for not wanting to hurt your...I can't fault you for not wanting to hurt your parents, <em>or</em> for wanting to be honest about your (lack of) beliefs. So my initial reaction is, "Whatever you decide to do, don't feel guilty about it - this is a situation where there <em>is</em> no unequivocally right answer."<br /><br />It's your situation, and you're the one who's in the best position to judge what to do. That said, if you continue to wait, it may be possible to introduce the topic later on, in little ways, with less pain for your parents. Especially since you're most likely at a point in your life where you're becoming more independent and autonomous from your home and parents. <br /><br />If you want support, or advice, or just to know that you're not the only one in this situation, feel free to join the Facebook group (you may want to create an alternate, pseudonymous FB profile to do so). Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-69454736486696533232013-04-25T02:51:35.639-05:002013-04-25T02:51:35.639-05:00I am an eighteen year old who has struggled with l...I am an eighteen year old who has struggled with lack of faith for a long time, and have recently settled into a hopeful, unchosen agnosticism. I also have a great respect for many Christians, including my wonderfully loving parents. Unfortunately, this also holds me back from telling them. I can't bring myself to inflict this great pain on them - because I know their beliefs are very real to them, I know they would suffer so much knowing that I am no longer a believer.<br />At the same time, I long to be open and honest with them, and feel so fake every time I attend church or bow my head before a meal. I just don't want to cause them grief.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-12391160475090027772013-01-29T09:22:06.623-06:002013-01-29T09:22:06.623-06:00My mother is very Christian. I have never accepted...My mother is very Christian. I have never accepted faith even with years of going to Christian faith schools and endless church Sundays. We had a very rocky time in my teens. She never changed, never accepted me and even through out my 20's could never accept the fact that I do not believe as she does. <br /><br />I am now 32 with two children. I have specified to her how I do not want my children taken to church or prayed with. They can make their own decisions after they are at least 10years old. She won't stop. She makes them pray. Sadly, I feel I am going to have to stop talking to her altogether for not respecting my wishes as an adult. This will mean not seeing her grandchildren, not being invited to family functions, period. <br /><br />I just want to send a message out. Respect your children and their decisions, one day they will be adults.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-43573386888430658902012-09-20T08:15:03.745-05:002012-09-20T08:15:03.745-05:00Also, check out the support group if you haven'...Also, check out the support group if you haven't already. There's a lot of good, sensible advice floating around there. http://www.facebook.com/groups/406543069389528/ Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-71821194910231245122012-09-20T07:48:20.409-05:002012-09-20T07:48:20.409-05:00...Tricky, because the situations are so individua......Tricky, because the situations are so individual. Let me see what I can come up with.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-8885094612930638612012-09-19T18:16:51.901-05:002012-09-19T18:16:51.901-05:00How about advice for atheist kids who can't be...How about advice for atheist kids who can't be loved by their extremely delusional Christian parents? There most likely is no god, religion being created to explain the things that couldn't be explained. The amount of stupidity I felt when I came to the realization! I had only thought it was real because the stories where branded into my head and I just went along with it. After thinking outside the box I began to understand that theology is just a cult. Religion teaches good life lessons and such, but when you start enforcing it like it's the law then you make it meaningless. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-446914341814475672012-05-27T21:22:00.505-05:002012-05-27T21:22:00.505-05:00Beautiful article. Even though I've never had...Beautiful article. Even though I've never had that experience, I did had a friend who had influenced my own faith come to the realization that he no longer believed in God. I'm not super-close to him, but even that was baffling and frustrating at first. <br /><br /><i>Don't let your confusion and fear try to tell you the limits of God's grace and mercy. Have faith. Trust.</i><br /><br />Excellent advice for any Christian, for any situation.storitellerhttp://willbikeforchange.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-61857382618747665422012-05-22T11:14:08.539-05:002012-05-22T11:14:08.539-05:00Yes, it's me. Thanks.Yes, it's me. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-82353430507784034262012-05-22T11:10:44.579-05:002012-05-22T11:10:44.579-05:00There are many reasonable Christian parents out he...There are many reasonable Christian parents out here:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4446682073857250843.post-38838431136230587332012-05-22T08:07:06.413-05:002012-05-22T08:07:06.413-05:00Great! I went ahead and added someone who asked to...Great! I went ahead and added someone who asked to join - I'm guessing that's you, but you never know - so the group is at least working. And the "closed" part means that anything written there is only visible to members of the group.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.com